 |
| qaton on 11/6/08 10:41 AM: |
|
Concerning Whitlock's post.
God's Holy Word is not a matter of who can muster up so-called theologians. Read 1Kings 22, one true prophet and
400 false. Read 1Kings 18, one true, 850 false. Read 1Peter 2, Act 20, Jude 1.4, 1Tim 4, 2Cor 11 and as Jesus said of
the last days in Mat 24.11 “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”
The Church has not misrepresented sodomy.
end of part 1 |
|
|
|
| jeffbwhitlock on 10/31/08 1:41 PM: |
|
Ray, I love you. I have nothing but respect for your
decision, and I know the anguish and the conflict that
led you here. The church has misrepresented
homosexuality and its sinfulness for generations, and
I stand with you -- today and always -- as a testimony
to the overreaching love of God.
To the Pharisees of the 21st century who would condemn
you, I submit this very condensed premise:
There are just as many Greek and Hebrew scholars who
say that the Word of God has been mistranslated in
opposition of homosexuality as there are who say the
opposite. Anyone who says being gay is a sin is being
disingenuous: A thorough exegesis of the text can lead
to only one conclusion -- that the determination of
whether or not homosexuality is a sin is a judgment
call, not a firm standing of scripture. In the absence
of absoluteness therein, condemnation is unwarranted
and unbiblical.
Remember that mediocrity always attacks excellence.
In our world as it is today, we must seek to be above
the fray.
In the coming years, remember this great lyric:
"There've been times when giving and loving brought
pain,
and I promised I would never let it happen again.
But I found out that loving was well worth the risk,
And that even in losing you win."
With every bit of hope I wish you all the best.
Jeff |
|
|
|
| imho on 10/30/08 10:14 AM: |
|
"hopes for a day when Christians will see homosexuality as no more a perceived sin than it used to be for women to be ministers or for divorced Christians to hold leadership positions in churches."
Doubtful. Sin is sin. Sinners are saved through Christ, as I do believe Ray Boltz is. Saved sinners will be in heaven. But it's still sinful. You need to rise above this Ray. Live a sex-free life if you have to. Perhaps your depression was because you couldn't completely surrender all your earthly desires and put Christ first. That is true fo all of mankind, not just you. |
|
|
|
| angel on 10/28/08 2:56 PM: |
|
Hello Ray Boltz
My brother in the past, you have inspired a lot of people with the messages that you had in songs. But I am reading your confession and i have to say that i am shocked. My brother, you have gone into the wrong direction, and i am sorry to say thats what the devil wants because he is antichrist; he is against God's plan. You mentioned that God made u this way (homosexual) but we see from the beginning in Genesis Chp 2:7,21 that God made man and woman. If he had created you homosexual then in the beginning he would have made man with man and woman with woman; but he didn't. |
|
|
|
| momof5 on 10/27/08 7:57 PM: |
|
God says that homosexuality is a sin. We are to turn away from sin. I know a lady who was a Lesbian for years and she is married with a wonderful husband and 3 children. Does she struggle, sometimes, yes? But does she know that what she has chosen in her life is correct and God's plan? Yes!!! Ray - you need to break the bonds of this hold in your life! You can't be a Christian and be gay. To be a Christian is to be 'Christ Like'. We (God included) love the sinner but we do not have to love and accept the sin! |
|
|
|
| toglorifyGod on 10/27/08 1:20 PM: |
|
This hold issue of is being gay right or wrong has nothing to do with what we think or how we feel. But what God has to say about it in His word. So when people say that they are gay and they are also a christian that is a lie. The word christian in it self means to be like Christ and the only thing Christ taught about as pertaining to relationship was that of man and a woman. And for anyone who says the Bible accepts gays need to read Romans chapter 1 and Leviticus 18:22 there is know getting around these verses they are straight to the point. And the Bible states God does not change! |
|
|
|
| cjs on 10/21/08 9:29 PM: |
|
God bless Ray! Unless you have 'been there' you have no idea how much courage it took for him to come out. Although I am not famous and never recorded a CD, other than that my story isn't a lot different from his. I fought being gay for 40 years - it almost killed me. The truth sets us free - gay Christians need to be able to come out and live their lives for God just like anyone else. Thank you, Ray, for sharing your story. To you who would judge and condemn, I say look for the anointing. There is NO question that Ray and his music have that anointing. God bless. |
|
|
|
| mahgirl on 10/18/08 10:10 PM: |
|
Repentance is where God is. Ray is not fine! What bible are you guys reading? When I am sinning, people love me when they confront me. When God confronts me he is showing me love. God is our heavenly father, does he care any less that we touch the fire? He warns us. Do you people have kids? You love them and teach them. Why are you people taking a great big can of paint and coloring sin another color? I have gay friends, but they are not going around acting like representing God is no big deal. Ray was representing God. God is not represented as a "Do what ever you want God all is okay." |
|
|
|
| mahgirl on 10/18/08 10:02 PM: |
|
I am so sad and sicken at what I have read. Just this morning I read about Role Playing. Ray you are a role player and you have always been one. Dont you think we all face Sin? Sin is Sin. You are in sin and you want to call it something else? You place your self above all else by you lie. God loves the sinner, but not the sin. He will never except the sin. Sin distorys people. How distored is your wife and you kids. Oh yeah you say they love you. Okay, but my gosh you ripped their hearts out. "I know." Now having sex with men is full filling? You are buying a great big lie!
-More then sad- |
|
|
|
| steve1981 on 10/17/08 10:07 PM: |
|
I grew up listening to Ray Boltz on the radio. He was probably my favorite artist with such powerful songs as "Watch the Lamb" - to which I've still got about all the words memorized and like to belt out now and again. This hits me really hard although I know that no one is exempt from temptation, discouragement, and falling. I know the feeling of wanting to end your life because of inconsistencies between your beliefs and your life. It is commendable that you are the type of person to want to be transparent and forthcoming rather than deceptive. Should you ever find emptiness down the road you are on, know that the same way you made changes to get to where you feel more consistent, you can make changes to put yourself back in a situation of struggle. While the initial surrender to a nagging desire can be exhilarating and freeing, the end can be a darkness worse than the worst discouragement while still in the struggle. I cried to read this because it really hit me hard, but I know I have struggles and failings that would hit those who love me hard too so I don't judge you in that sense. I am hurting but am also looking at myself and am further convinced that we must never tire in the struggle. I am also convinced that the more God wants to do with us, the harder the enemy fights. I fail so much that I am lying face down in the mud with my own blood around me so often - and then I'll realize it and stumble out toward God - only to allow myself to get beat again - but I know that there is coming a day of victory, and that's what I'm living for. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 10/17/08 1:39 PM: |
|
Amen to 4Samantha! God has ways of reaching down deep into all of our hearts, to minister to others, to lift
the discouraged, to bring hope where there is none, to
bring peace, salvation and Joy in Jesus.
Let go and enjoy the Abundant Life in Christ, God will bless you and sustain you.
This is what this forum should be about. being here for one another in love. Ray is fine he is singing for the Lord, and witnessing to people who may not know Christ.
Lets get on with the task God wants us talk about...and it is J E S U S |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 10/16/08 9:09 AM: |
|
Dear Ray, I pulled out all of your old CD's and have been listening to them. HOW BLESSED I AM! Thank you for your anointed singing. Truly, I feel like I am praying and my spirit is so lifted when I listen to your music. My belief has not changed in my previous writings. I still FEAR for your acceptance of sin, ANY sin. I continue to pray for God to show me the sin in my own life so that I can repent and grow closer to Him. I desperately need Jesus! I ask your forgiveness if my comments hurt you in any way. My concern is that God loves ALL mankind and desires that not one is lost |
|
|
|
| Bear on 10/14/08 11:04 PM: |
|
Dear Mr. Boltz:
I hold my head higher knowing that a man with your impact has embraced a part of himself that has been prisoner/terrorized most of your life journey. The years of pain can now be replaced with healing and joy. To say that I am excited for you is an understatement. Thank you for giving a voice with power and sincerity to so many treasured songs. I wish I could tell you "life-stuff" gets easier; it changes from always having to be a peek or valley. I hope you find solitude in the middle somewhere where reason trumps hope. God still finds favor with you.
|
|
|
|
| Bear on 10/14/08 10:06 PM: |
|
What we forget about the Bible is that it is a guide... and what a fantastic, spiritual guide it is. We are supposed to live in freedom under Christ. We are supposed to love God, our neighbor, and ourselves. In that order. However, if we aren't doing one of the three, we aren't doing ANY! I think offering condemnation at a time where love, prayer, and mercy are necessary IS THE ABSOLUTE downfall for present-day Christians. God-In-A-Box theology is a dying religion. Breaking Christ's commandments??? Please stop "should-ing" on people; that is as bad as pointing your finger and shaming. |
|
|
|
| Bear on 10/14/08 9:50 PM: |
|
I have read about 50 percent of the blogs on here. I applaud most and recognize the arrogant vanity in others. We (Christians) put our faith in a book full of flaws; the Bible was not only written by men and women, but flawed men and women. We as Christians must ask ourselves this question: Are we so vain to think that EVERYTHING we need to know about the Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent God can be found within a man-made book of books? Are we so vain to perceive that all of God's mercy, grace, and love can be edited within several hundred pages of print? What foolishness... |
|
|
|
| TrebleClefMelody on 10/5/08 1:57 AM: |
|
Rocket, its easy for us to say that we love God, but our lives should reflect Christ. John 3:16 says, For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only begotten Son. That whomsoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have eternal life. Yes, believing is a major part of it. But there are scriptures that allow us to get the whole picture. John 14:15, Christ said, If you love me, keep my commandments. We have to live it everyday, dying to self, because the flesh is sinful. If he continues to live a life that is unpleasing to God, then yes. He will go to hell. God's word trumps all. |
|
|
|
| TrebleClefMelody on 10/5/08 1:46 AM: |
|
Reading this really weighed heavy on my heart. For him to say that He knows Jesus to be real, yet, he lives a life that says otherwise. We are called to live a life as Christ. No, we are not perfect, and we're going to fall. And that is why God has given us grace and mercy because He knows His children. But for us to blame God for our sins, thats just wrong. For him to say that God made him that way, he is trying to justify his sins. We can blame God all we want, but He has given us the freewill to chose to follow Him or satan. There is no straddling the fence with God. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 10/4/08 10:54 AM: |
|
xce11ence, my friend, do you not realize that You can post and say "you are going to Hell...
Are you the Junior Holy Spirit? Are you God's Asst?
Do you know what John 3:16 says? "Whosoever will let him come- shall not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE"
So, please understand that your angry feelings are really showing, and God is not blessing them..or you.
Ray is NOT going to hell, because Ray has trusted Christ as his Savior and believes in his heart. Ray may loose a reward, or loose Christian friends who turn their Godly backs on him. but he can still sing, WHAT A FRIEND WE HAVE IN JESUS- |
|
|
|
| WAM41964 on 10/3/08 12:54 PM: |
|
You know, I think xxce11ence needs to go on a strict fast until he/she is able to get a handle on proper grammar. |
|
|
|
| Jazzy on 9/30/08 9:24 PM: |
|
I agree with fasting. I just have a problem with "xxce11ence" being so...You should have done this...you should have done that, now your hellbound". Like he would handle it perfectly IF he was in that situation. YUCK. Encourage people don't damn them to hell. Yeah, there is a right way and a wrong way, too bad we are not all perfect! |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/29/08 8:18 AM: |
|
a great example of the justification we can all make for our sins. But, no matter how good it may seem to us, Jesus will want to know why we caved in to our passions. There is an awesome book I am reading about fasting. The ISBN # 978-1-59979-258-3. The author uses scripture to show how we can break all bondages to sin through prayer AND fasting. Miracles happen! FREEDOM is experienced. Having never really understood the purpose or results of fasting, I had never done it right. But, IF you are a Christian and want true freedom, try fasting, especially for sins of the flesh. |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/29/08 8:06 AM: |
|
If I am trying to justify my life to another and that person believes that I am somehow not living up to par, then, I am going to be angry and not like this person. I will feel judged and my pride will well up in anger. This is WHY JESUS WAS KILLED! The measure by which all Christians are judged is the bible. The person who exacts that judgment is Jesus. While I pray for his MERCY, he is going to judge each of us according to our works and faith. Faith requires following him and his statutes, does it not? We will be judged on it all, not just parts of it. I believe baroguenspirit said |
|
|
|
| baroquenspirit on 9/28/08 11:41 PM: |
|
It's a valid comparison. It represents a psychological and spiritual issue. It often emerges at a very early age in someones life. I believe it is exactly the rationale people use to defend homosexuality as an acceptable life practice for a Christian. It also raises an important secondary question...it valid for a Metropolitan minister to preach against stealing? Or any sin for that matter? If we are to accept the rationale given in many posts in here then it is never valid for any Christian to challenge any person on any sin. |
|
|
|
| Jazzy on 9/28/08 11:25 PM: |
|
xxce11ence, your self righteous attitude makes me want to throw up. I'm pretty sure someone will give you the same compassion you just gave out.
baroquenspirit, Can ya come out with a better comparison than that? Come on. |
|
|
|
| baroquenspirit on 9/28/08 11:10 PM: |
|
I am a thief. I steal things. For many years I resisted stealing. I lived a double life. I went to therapy, I prayed, I tried to change. No one knew who I really was. Then I accepted that I was born a Kleptomaniac. God made me Klepto. He obviously loves me and wants me to be happy. I am so free now that I know I can be a Stealing Christian. My church no longer lets me count the collection so I left. Anyone who quotes me Bible verses or says I should stop stealing is hateful and judgmental. Some day Christians and society will accept that Klepto Christians were made that way by God. |
|
|
|
| xxce11ence on 9/27/08 10:51 PM: |
|
Giving in to evil was the worst thing to do. He should have Fasted until
he came out without any doubt even if it takes you your life. At least
you tried. Now you are Hell bound where you will have eternity to think
about it. There is no exceptions with God. I am not without sin but I try
my best to not give in or give up. God gives us the will power to over
come and if you fail then you did not use that will.
What happened to Ray did two things. It made people stronger to try
and do better than he did and it also made the weak open to sin.
There is a right way and a wrong way no exceptions. |
|
|
|
| Owen on 9/27/08 4:09 PM: |
|
I'm praying for ray...
Here's a fictional article of a conversation between Ray and Jesus.
http://shawnbarr.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/ray-boltz-talks-to-jesus/ |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/27/08 11:59 AM: |
|
Doors are opening for Ray to continue singing in groups, in schools and in churches, He has now a wider range of venues, where he can share not only his faith and his beautiful songs, but share the Gospel of Jesus Christ to everyone... God Bless you Ray! Keep marching forward, keep on singing for Jesus... we are all praying.
In Christ's Love Always... |
|
|
|
| Jazzy on 9/27/08 10:11 AM: |
|
Same here. I really "felt" for Ray and his family and was also devastated. I know in my life I've been through some stuff but not at that magnitude. It must be very hard for him and the family at this time of "coming out". I just want God's best in everyone's life. Let's continue to seek after God with our whole hearts. |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/26/08 8:16 AM: |
|
I joined this sight because I was "devastated" at Ray's revelation. After having read these blogs I "see" much pain and anger. I realize this is not just about getting up and walking away. Many of you are living in agony. I do not want to add to your pain! I do not believe you are cursed. I do not believe you are being punished. I believe we "ALL" have crosses to carry in this life (Paul's reference to his "thorn"). My intent here is to "hold fast" to the WORD of God. For if we begin to deny any part of it or add to it we will face losing our share in the tree of life. (Rev 22:19) |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/25/08 11:32 PM: |
|
Jazzy made me laugh out loud. So I jumped back in. Seriously, COLORADO is trying to ban the bible because the inspired Word includes what is considered "hate" language, specifically citing the bible's stand on homosexuality. I wonder if anyone really believes that if we remove all of the bibles in the world it will change the opinions of God? If tomorrow morning we awaken to full acceptance of Homosexuality in every aspect of society, will that exempt anyone from final judgment by God? Maybe these voices are annoying! But, maybe they speak truth....a last call to obedience unto God. |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/25/08 11:05 PM: |
|
I have realized that the real issue is that I recognize all of the bible as the inspired word of God. Because of my viewpoint I truly FEAR for anyone who does not recognize a behavior that they are embracing as sin. NOT because I call it a sin, but the bible calls it sin. And unrepented sin will result in punishment. If I knew a friend was going to rob a bank I would try to stop them, explaining that I fear the loss of their life. AND that the law states it is a crime. This is the real issue for me:life and death, Heaven and Hell. Freedom and Enslavement. In LOVE, I want LIFE for ALL. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/25/08 10:38 PM: |
|
I have been joyful and yet lamenting over some of the struggle I see my dear children, in these posts! I love you each one, Black or White, Jew, Gentile, poor or rich, Gay or Straight, You ALL were created in the image of my father God, and I beg of you to stop judging each other but come to me and Learn more of ME. I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. Most of you, and Ray too, know Me as your Lord, I have taken all your sins upon Me. Why can't you simply trust that? Let each of you and let Ray too, witness to people in your individual worlds.
I Love You, Jesus |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/25/08 10:38 PM: |
|
How did a spelling bee blogger get in here? |
|
|
|
| Gen15 on 9/25/08 5:03 PM: |
|
Soooo....where does one go to find honest and respectful discussions among thinking folks with a minimum of typographical errors on the subject of faith and sexuality? |
|
|
|
| Jazzy on 9/24/08 11:21 PM: |
|
Fledge...I woosh we coold ahl bee moore lak yew! Lern'd an ahl... |
|
|
|
| JohnD on 9/24/08 4:24 PM: |
|
Thanks for your comment Autumn. That is exactly the reason that people not be forced into "straight" relationships when they are really not that way. If Ray had been able to live his life as he trully was, then he would not have caused the pain that his wife may be feeling right now. |
|
|
|
| autumnsant on 9/24/08 12:49 PM: |
|
This is a very personal issue to me. My sympathies are all with your wife and what she has been through in the past few years. I pray that you will understand how wrong it is to feel that " what I want is right" |
|
|
|
| JohnD on 9/24/08 12:07 PM: |
|
From dlama "Efforts to create a gay church is confronting God." Umm, there has been a "gay church" in existence for more than 40 years now, the Metropolitan Community Church, which has local churches in the US, Canada, Mexico, South America, Europe and Africa. Sooo, it looks like this effort, by God's grace, has been very successful so far. Hmmm, makes you think. Oh, but I forgot, most of the evangelical Christians here don't want to think, they just want to be told what to believe. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/24/08 10:44 AM: |
|
(on another site) a quote:
"We all have troubles and we all fall short don't we? My thoughts would send me to hell, wouldn't they? Why then dwell on a speck? The thing that will send me to hell is the unacceptance of the Grace offered by Christ.Lets examine that and not get legalistic about your sin being bigger than mine. But then this story wouldn't have given you a platform to pontificate.- Mark"
Excellently Expressed! |
|
|
|
| Gen15 on 9/24/08 10:23 AM: |
|
All sin is relational sin. It is notable that homosexual acts in the Bible are viewed as devient because they occur outside of covenantal relationship. Sexuality was meant by God to be expressed within a lifelong committment to another human being wholistically–not only physically. Such same-sex life-long commitments are not present in the Biblical stories (although some have speculated about David and Jonothan whose relationship was extremely close but otherwise unclear) but they are present in our modern day times. In all of this debate there are only three things I can discern for sure: 1) God places high value on covenant, 2) We cannot love God, others, and self perfectly without the Spirit of the Father and the Son loving through us. 3) We receive the Holy Spirit through trust in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for all our sins and we can do absolutely nothing to earn this.
|
|
|
|
| dlama on 9/24/08 10:22 AM: |
|
God's mercy on Ray Boltz.What about God's grace and Christians who build ourselves up to fight urges of our carnal nature? What about reconsideration and approval of other sins? Any sin reconsidered is akin to thoughts of suicide; Insanity. Efforts to create a gay church is confronting God's law. God's grace must be discarded completely if you choose God's law. Choose one way or the other. A fence riding Ray Boltz is not the first musician to fall from Grace. Lucifer set us up. Pray God awaken him or allow him freedom to quickly enjoy his insanity before the inevitable appointment. Choose LIFE |
|
|
|
| Fledge on 9/24/08 8:21 AM: |
|
Well, aren't we all just a bunch of amateur theologians. It's hard to
take people seriously, no matter how emphatic or dogmatic their
assertions, when they can't spell correctly. Reading these posts is like
wading through a heap of ninth-grade B-level English papers. You all
want so badly to sound learned, but you're shown up by such juvenile
errors as "reguardless" and "definately". Seriously, learn to use the
correct form of "there", and use a spell-checker, or just go back to your
little Yahoo chat rooms. |
|
|
|
| monica71635 on 9/23/08 5:44 PM: |
|
Ray- I wont throw a bunch of scripture at you, you are familiar with them already. i will say that i love you reguardless of what you do. God loves the sinner but hates the sin. likewise because Jesus commands us and i try to be as much like Him as I can humanly be. I still love you, that is my choice. I have a homosexual cousin and just because he is gay, i dont love him less, seek God in all that you do. my prayers are with you. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/23/08 12:48 PM: |
|
"The Anchor Holds" thanks for your witness...
Sung with a moving sound and don't ever give up on the Sure Anchor of the soul. this song gives me the strength to go on living life without my mom... I know she is still with me in my heart..I miss her so much!
Bless you, Ray as you continue to minister and take
the Gospel to the unsaved in whatever community you are serving. Don't be fearful of degrading comments, fore He that is IN YOU, is greater than he that is in the world. Copy to your URL and Listen to this Song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdT-ubPspGM&feature=related
|
|
|
|
| JohnD on 9/23/08 8:38 AM: |
|
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because the city was inhospitable to strangers. Again, you need to place the story in the context of the time it was written. The men of the city wanted to Lot to send out his guests so the men of the city could "know" them. In the time it was written, putting men in the place of women was seen as a way to make them feel inferior. It was all a power play. To get power over others, to made them feel inferior and in the time the most inferior were women. Read a biblical history: http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5702 |
|
|
|
| g2bragingfire on 9/23/08 2:12 AM: |
|
Question...why were Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed? There are many references throughout the bible that speak of those cities and why they were destroyed.(2Peter 2:6 and Jude 7)They plainly say why.
And further down in Jude, yes it does say that Michael the archangel didn't rail against the devil, but instead said,"The Lord rebuke you!" How true!!
The Lord rebuke satan and his lies that it's okay to go against God's word and that man should twist it around to suite his own purposes.How sad the Savior must be that so many are deceived and don't even realize it. satan is good at tickling ears!! |
|
|
|
| g2bragingfire on 9/23/08 1:56 AM: |
|
I think it's sad that you justify wrong behavior by saying Jesus was a liberal in His time. Jesus is God in any time. You seem to say He only told the Phar. how it was... but that's not true. He told all! It was just that the Phar didn't want to listen. If anything, who seems to be the Phar here and not want to listen to the truth about what God's word says? |
|
|
|
| JohnD on 9/23/08 12:09 AM: |
|
CONT.We know that God came to Earth in human form to get in our skin and feel what we feel. Then he sacrificed himself for ALL of us. I am saved by grace through faith, even my imperfect faith. I suggest that you study the bible and try understand that most of you are living like the pharisees that Jesus condemned. For the pharisees followed the letter of the law, but not the meaning of the law. Jesus was a liberal in his times, he came to change the status quo and challenged the religious authority. Woe to him if he came today, for most people posting here would crucify him again. |
|
|
|
| JohnD on 9/22/08 11:41 PM: |
|
I have been reading these posts with interest over the past couple of days. What intrigues me the most is the dearth of people on here who "know" what the bible says. I wonder how many of them speak aramaic or greek or do they really think that the bible was written in american english 2000 years ago and has not been subject to interpretation by people all of those years? The bible was also written at a specific time in our history and you can't read it without studying that history and what was going on in the society... |
|
|
|
| thoughtful on 9/22/08 11:36 PM: |
|
but are we really seeking to know the real Truth? or simply smugly proclaiming that we know for certain? I for one am confident of finding God's grace at the end of the search. And if im wrong in my estimation of God's Word i want to know, and if my life is wrong i want to change it. But just preaching back and forth about it without actually building a case is wearing. God is the Judge, but im the jury, how am i to know the truth and know that it is the truth, if the only appeal is 'because i believe it'? |
|
|
|
| thoughtful on 9/22/08 11:30 PM: |
|
i can't help but notice that the comment section in a 'gay' website is full of theological comments... ironic. But also appropriate: news is meant to be read, and reacted to and thought about. Truth is meant to be discovered, and ultimately deemed in a court. i esp. appreciate the posts that ask questions and submit 'for further info' links and recommendations. And that is because the issue seems to jump around from whether homosexuality itself is wrong to whether homosexuals are bad people. and the evidences and arguments are traded off for either, even if they don't apply. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/22/08 10:37 PM: |
|
RAY: "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." (Isaiah 54:17)
Rejoicing with you, I'm going to keep your songs in my encouragement folder and in my heart, until the Lord tells me it's time to use it for His praise and for His Glory. |
|
|
|
| g2bragingfire on 9/22/08 10:04 PM: |
|
Cont... But in love. And I mean that. I have to constinently bring myself before the Lord to bring out my own faults, I have enough of them, but by God's grace and mercy, I turn from them and keep striving. God's word is plain about all our sins and our life styles. Yes, He is a loving God and can forgive many sins, BUT we must turn from those sins. Problems with todays world is that so many people have allowed sin to rule and reign over this world and it's people/(christians) who say homosexuality is okay is part of the problem. Call sin, SIN...missing the mark and turn back to God. FOR REAL! |
|
|
|
| g2bragingfire on 9/22/08 10:01 PM: |
|
Cont... God calls us to love our enemies, love our brothers, pray for them... that does not say to condone what they do, KNOWING it is against God's word. And, it also doesn't say to condemn them either, that IS God's job. But, how are you 'loving' your brother if you know he is sinning and that penatly for that sin if you don't tell him. Read Matthew 18:15-17... It seems to me whether a person truly goes to someone in love, there will be someone out there who says you're juding them and it's not your job... I think Jesus just said what our job is!! I'm not saying this in hatred...
|
|
|
|
| g2bragingfire on 9/22/08 9:56 PM: |
|
What I fail to understand is why? when people are discerning what spirit another person is of...that their judging? Jesus says, "Do not just, lest ye be judged." But it also says to discern the spirits. Jesus didn't tell the woman at the well to leave and go back to her 'husband'. He said, 'Go and Sin NO more." We all sin. I know I do. But the point is that when we sin and we know it to turn from that sin. Guys, read your bibles. If you say you love God and want to serve Him... READ!! Read Romans 1:18-32. Pay special attention to V26-27. I think that pretty clearly says what God thinks. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/22/08 9:34 PM: |
|
Ray Boltz is one of the best Gospel Singers i have listened to. Instead of preaching the Word of God he Sings the Word. Thanks for the Song.. Sunday in MCC WashingtonDC, Man, this was such a blessing. You could feel the anointing of the Holy Spirit in that performance. Thank you Ray for your ministry which has
saved me from a life that could have been ruined...
Keep on Keeping on God is and will bless you abundantly |
|
|
|
| bornright on 9/22/08 9:19 PM: |
|
Ray, all I can say is THANK YOU! The Christians who judge you are hypocrites many times over. It's a beautiful revelation to realize that God loves you just as much as he did when you were closeted. Now, coming out has given you the opportunity to love yourself as well! Christian popular consciousness has been wrong before (see historical biblical Christian arguments IN FAVOR of Slavery, Womens' Subjugation, Racial Segregation, witch-burning, etc ... shall I keep going?) Each of these things that we now condemn were supported by scriptures from the Bible. Sound familiar folks? |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/22/08 6:00 PM: |
|
triciamind, peace be unto you, take a deep breath and just Lean on the Everlasting Arms of Jesus, you do not have to do all the judging, and all the pointing of a finger, nor be afraid. I am as God Created me to be, Yes, I trusted the Lord at 8 as my Savior, and my RELATIONSHIP with Jesus continues to grow daily after many years...
I also fully understand John 3:16 Who-So-Ever-Will...
I invite you too and others who feel threatened and afraid of this news about Ray, to truly TRUST in Jesus and to Lean on His Arms. Come and find rest and peace & JOY, I have it, you can too. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/22/08 5:31 PM: |
|
Jesus talked more about Love One Another, than He did about Homosexuality...In fact he did not mention it.
You need to understand that in the brain there is a gland that determines sexual orientation AT Birth! It begins with an "h" -
Some people will see insult, perversion, ugliness in all its forms in others because this is what gives their lives meaning. Never understanding there are reasons they see these things all around them, that the sickness is not outside in the world but inside their own heart! Before they look for the "Mote" in their brothers eye, they should remove their own. |
|
|
|
| holstkm on 9/22/08 4:49 PM: |
|
I don't think we should condemn anyone; Jesus didn't. Jesus loves everyone but Jesus hates sin. Unfortunately people are running around saying God hates Homosexuals, no He does NOT but His word is very clear about the homosexual lifestyle. His word says it is an abomination to the Lord. Read your Bibles people. |
|
|
|
| Andrew on 9/22/08 12:25 PM: |
|
I think that the people that Jesus despised the most in the New Testament were the Pharisees. Many people in the church today (especially people who condeman homosexuals) look a lot like the Pharisees: They are very well-versed on scripture, pray (a lot!) and despise anyone unlike themselves. When the Pharisees were speaking to Jesus, and he was writing in the sand, what do you think he was writing? Only speculation, but couldn't it have been the Pharisees' sins as they were spewing hate and rejection for people unlike themselves? Many people who have blogged here remind me a lot of them. |
|
|
|
| Andrew on 9/22/08 12:22 PM: |
|
Continued from below...Yes, I believe the story of Adam and Eve is true, and the earth had to be populated. It's a logical true story from the Bible, because how else would the earth be populated? However, after the fall of man, things were no longer "perfect" on earth. This was the only time on earth that everything was "perfect." We don't all fit into that Garden-of-Eden box anymore, and I'm pretty sure God knows our heart since He created us. If you can't judge a hermaphrodite since things don't always work out exactly as planned in the womb, don't judge gay people either! |
|
|
|
| Andrew on 9/22/08 12:17 PM: |
|
Do any of you know what a hermaphrodite is? If you don't, it is a person who has sexual organs that are both male and female. Just because they may "look" like a man or woman, it doesn't necessarily match up to who they're attracted to since they are technically both sexes. Do you think God will judge then who they decide to love? It's the same for gay people: You don't know what's in their brain: Only God does. Wake up, people! Your narrow-minded view of Adam and Eve in the Garden doesn't match up to what the reality is of all of God's people on earth. |
|
|
|
| ya-ya on 9/22/08 4:49 AM: |
|
continued from below...
He said, "His 33-year marriage to ex-wife Carol was largely a happy one", and he loved her and was attracted to her; so what's the problem? He chose to destroy his home that he made a vow to God to protect and honor until he died. To say I couldn't live in a happy and loving home anymore because he had to deny himself is selfish. This should make all married couples take a step back, and make sure they keep no secrets between them. This could happen to anyone who doesn't guard their heart. This is another failed marriage. Chaulk one up for Satan. |
|
|
|
| ya-ya on 9/22/08 4:36 AM: |
|
We are all loved,and each of us struggle with sin. I think the real story here is why, when he loved his wife and family, and they obviously loved him, why this over came their family, and destroyed his ministry. I am so sick of hearing people say they had to make a decision because they would have died. Please hear my heart. I know his struggle was hard, but many have gone through this, and have overcome. To say I will only be happy if I'm with a man/woman shows that you're concerned about the outer person and not what is inside. |
|
|
|
| denbigh on 9/21/08 10:14 PM: |
|
Continued from below..Why is it that whenever someone holds true to God's Word it's seen as condemnation? No one is saying that Ray Boltz isn't deserving of love. He doesn't deserve to be ridiculed and slandered. But he also doesn't deserve a pat on the back and a free ride. Call sin what it is. When I sin, I have people in my life that hold me accountable for my actions. My heart breaks that Ray apparently doesn't have that.
And for those that make the argument about God's Word not being "innerant"..which parts do you decide are true and which are false? You? How convienient. |
|
|
|
| denbigh on 9/21/08 10:09 PM: |
|
When someone steals something from someone else, we say "that's wrong". No one says, "hey, don't condemn that guy! that's just how he is!"
When someone murders another individual, no one says, "don't judge him! it's not his fault!" no, we do judge him, because he did wrong.
Now, before someone accuses me of comparing murder and theft to homosexuality, please hear me that I'm not. But I will stand by God's Word that declares murder, theft, and homosexuality as sin. It's so clear in His Word that any argument against it shows ignorance. It's not about condemnation, it's about accountability. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/21/08 6:40 PM: |
|
My Joy is complete in the Risen Christ and today I had the honor to hear the Gospel presented with a vibrant testimony to God's Grace by Ray at the concert he gave
in Washington DC - Not only was the music excellent, his singing outstanding, but his Love for Jesus and his desire to share that saving Grace and Love with others, was so evident. One of his songs was "The Anchor Holds"
*Does your Anchor Hold when the storms come? and to whom does it hold? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdT-ubPspGM&feature=related
Listen and be blessed as I was...
|
|
|
|
| Jazzy on 9/21/08 12:09 PM: |
|
jr42a Look to God, not to man and how we act. We will fail you God will not. My heart goes out to all who struggle. Let us find our peace in God and keep our stones in our pockets. |
|
|
|
| jr42a on 9/20/08 10:50 PM: |
|
I cannot believe all of these messages since I last posted; and especially the tone of what is said. Do any of you ever wonder at why LGBT people don't listen to you? The hate definately comes through...and it does despite what you firmly believe.
Try walking a while in a gay man's shoes and then come and preach.
If this is your God then I don't want it. Listen first, speak second. Let your words be seasoned with grace. Seek to understand... seek to locate that which is of God in the other.
As a gay man who is in Ray's position you truthfully cannot and have not taken the time to hear |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/20/08 8:57 PM: |
|
Jazzy, thank you for your insight and depth of
spiritual discernment... the world needs to see and
hear of the Christ, not bickering between God's children... |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/20/08 8:52 PM: |
|
People need the Lord, when will we realize that people need the Lord...
Listen to the message in this song, and Let God Speak
to your Heart (turn your sound on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGg2OSbNxh4&feature=related |
|
|
|
| joyful777 on 9/20/08 8:01 PM: |
|
This is really dumb...how is it that after 30some years of marriage you just can't take it anymore???!!! THAT'S ODD!!!! One thing I want everyone to keep in mind...God says in his bible that the homosexuals will NOT enter the kingdom of God. God created the human being to his image and I don't think God was GAY, God is perfect not Gay |
|
|
|
| nmwolfboy on 9/20/08 5:27 PM: |
|
"Lord, keep me always in the company of those who fearlessly seek the truth, and hide me under the shadow of thy wings from those who think they have found it." Of course sin exists, but i don't recall Christ ever commanding us to be obsessed with identifying the speck in each others' eyes - instead, we are commanded to love God and our neighbors. Every minute spent arguing about what we perceive as someone else's sin is another minute we steal from the opportunity to love God and our brothers/sisters. |
|
|
|
| blessedjoy on 9/20/08 4:50 PM: |
|
My heart is saddened by the ignorance or disregard of God's Word. We have become too accustomed to secular humanism. Loving the sinner as Jesus does and hating the sin is not judging that person but the sin. It seems that we are not willing to call it "sin" though. We are all human and commit sin daily but are forgiven because of the blood of Jesus. But because we love Him we are convicted and want to change our ways. Addiction is a terrible thing and a lie of the flesh and devil. As Chrisitians we should pray more for each other and for the Lord to be glorified. |
|
|
|
| Jazzy on 9/20/08 12:16 PM: |
|
People are dying and going to hell all around us and we are debating with each other. Everyone has to work out their own salvation. Lets be productive where we can and quit wasting time debating. |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/20/08 10:26 AM: |
|
With SINCERE LOVE and RESPECT for all who are reading these blogs, I pray that God, Our Father, Jesus, His Son, and our Advocate, the Holy Spirit will continue to guide ALL of us as we pursue living lives pleasing to our Creator. May each of us give Glory to Our Father this day! Sincerely, I am sorry if I have caused anger or resentment in any of you! I have only tried to speak TRUTH. I am passionate about my belief if our ALL Powerful, Sovereign God, as you are too. I pray for TRUE PEACE for all of us. In a spirit of LOVE. May God Bless and keep all of you. I am done here! |
|
|
|
| sthompson515 on 9/20/08 10:15 AM: |
|
1o'clock: Did you do your homework? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309724/ or http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm. (PS - I'm a straight woman who will be at seminary next year because I want to be a pastor; but I'm sure to most of the conservatives posting here, that makes me as much of an abomination as the homosexuals). |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/20/08 9:58 AM: |
|
Scripture ------Religious Talk? This, my friend is the problem. Not one of you can bear to deal with the word Sin. You cannot acknowledge "sin". You cling to the scriptures that speak of the gifts of the spirit and ignore the words that deal with repentance. Unless it is to repent of discerning "sin". Jesus died for our sins. But, he did not remove sin from the world. BE CAREFUL. When you do not acknowledge sin....the next step is not acknowledging the DIVINITY of Christ. Then you are god, I am god. This is not Christianity. In reality, you HATE Christians and the WORD of God. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/20/08 9:10 AM: |
|
Look Up! here we go again, Lots of Religious Talk...
Folks, it is not about a Religious Path, there are many of those. It is about a Relationship!
Read the recent posts from Jayster and others, do you really see Jesus as the giver of life, the Joy, The Rock, the Bright and Morning Star...? or is this dear soul talking about Religion? God is Love and a Son that gave his life for us.. wherein is that Relationship with Jesus? You are missing something !
Reach out and take the hand of Jesus as you walk along and stop being God's judge, God can handle that Himself. |
|
|
|
| 4samantha on 9/19/08 11:31 PM: |
|
so I guess the answer is that this new "form" of Christianity is that sin does not exist and there is no final judgment. God is "Barney" I love you, you love me. we're a happy family. ANYTHING GOES! Really meant no harm or hurt to anyone. I just have a profoundly different view of the world, our GOD and Christianity. Hope you are right and I am wrong!!! But IF there is a God who is going to have a day of JUSTICE and cleansing of evil from the world, we have had plenty of His scriptures presented for consideration. I for one, seek to err on the side of taking His word for His word. |
|
|
|
| Jayster on 9/19/08 10:50 PM: |
|
If God condemns homosexuality then those who are tempted in that way need to turn to God for help. God still loves Ray Boltz but Ray Boltz has accepted the lie from Satan that he can live in sin and that God is ok with that. I not only pray for Ray but for Christians who are tempted each and every day by sin-that they can stand strong against it in these end times when sin is so prevalent. Come on, the Bible tells us how we are to live-we shouldn't accept being sinners and continue to live that way. We should be trying to be more and more like Jesus and that includes loving ALL people. |
|
|
|
| Jayster on 9/19/08 10:40 PM: |
|
There are too many religious Christians out there who are very judgemental. So Ray Boltz is a sinner-aren't we all? In the Bible sin is sin. It is all equal. God condemns ALL sin. So I guess we are all condemned. Thank goodness for God's grace and forgiveness. The key is to repent and to turn from our sin and live our lives for God according to the scripture. So if you are committing adultry, you shouldn't say well God still loves me and accepts me even though I have these feelings for someone other than my husband or wife. NO! He wants us to turn from our temptations. |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/19/08 10:05 PM: |
|
.... that whosoever believes in Jesus shall have Everlasting Life... WHOSOEVER - folks that means all of us, no matter what where who with whom, how or why??
We all by faith become children of the most High God and stand as new babes, Stop the nonsense and arguing between yourselves, this makes Jesus laugh, meanwhile Jesus and Ray go on about "bearing witness to the God who came to seek and to save" - so start praying the Holy Spirit will work in many hearts, in this very moment. God Bless You each one as YOU open your heart to the Power of God and believe! |
|
|
|
| Rocket on 9/19/08 9:55 PM: |
|
Have read all the posts, many are preachy, many are in defense of the unknown, many are showing fear of the unknown, and some are down- right hateful - But in all of the reading, I do not see anyone presenting the LOVE of God to the world to the readers. All that comes across is scared folks telling other scared folks things that you may or may not know about!
What about sharing "For God So Loved the world ..that HE gave" or inviting people to come to the Lord and finding true Love, true Peace and JOY. Ray has a testimony to his Lord, we will be with him in heaven, by faith! singing. Amen! |
|
|
|
| ixlandia on 9/19/08 9:00 PM: |
|
Do you really think GOD has given you the power to condemn? The BIBLE is a tool to be used in your own personal journey to the truth, not to point out flaws in OTHERS. So let us stop pointing fingers and judging others, as only GOD can judge anyone. If you want to save anyone else, show them the way and let GOD point out what they need to change. That is not up to YOU. |
|
|
|
| nmwolfboy on 9/19/08 7:46 PM: |
|
